(RNS) — It is now 73 years since the end of World War II, and since the liberation of the concentration camps.
We were reminded of that as we commemorated Yom Ha Shoah, the remembrance day named with the Hebrew word for the Holocaust, on Thursday (April 12). But rather than offering us more clarity, as the decades tick by, the Shoah offers us only new, or ever-new, questions and mysteries.
- How could the most civilized nation in Europe have perpetrated such a horror?
- How could the masses have listened to Hitler?
- Why didn’t more Germans resist Hitler’s rise to power?
- Why weren’t American Jews and their organizations more effective?
- Where was God in the midst of this whirlwind?
Those are all good, enduring, perhaps eternal questions.
But, there is one question that many people are now raising. It is an obscene question: If the Jews had had guns, couldn’t they have prevented the Holocaust?
- Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska, has asked: “How many Jews were put into the ovens because they were unarmed?”
- Housing Secretary Ben Carson has stated: “I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed.”
- Virginia Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, shared a Facebook post blaming the Holocaust in part on gun control and attacking survivors of the high school shooting in Parkland, Fla.
The post featured a photograph of a pile of shoes of Holocaust victims.
To all the kids that walked out of school to protest guns, these are the shoes of Jews that gave up their firearms to Hitler. They were led into gas chambers, murdered and buried in mass graves. Pick up a history book and you’ll realize what happens when you give up freedoms and why we have them.
- Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, has declared: “In Germany, firearm registration helped lead to the Holocaust.”
Then, there are the Facebook memes:
- “I saw a movie once where only the police and military had guns. It was called Schindler’s List.”
- “Disarmed victims wear them” (with a photo of a yellow Jewish star)
- “You don’t need guns, they said. Get on the train, they said.”
Please. Stop.
There were 200,000 Jews in Germany. They were of all ages, and from all walks of life. But, there is one thing that they — and every other Jew of Europe lacked — and that was a military tradition.
Does anyone really think that they would have been able to stand up against an army that would decimate the armies of France, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Belgium, Austria, Greece — that would invade the Soviet Union?
Yes, there were Jews who rose up in armed resistance against the Nazis.
Those stories are legendary — the Warsaw ghetto uprising; the Vilna ghetto uprising; the Bialystok ghetto; Treblinka, Sobibor, Auschwitz-Birkenau, among others. Jewish partisans fought in the forests. The Jewish authorities in Palestine sent armed Jews into Hungary and Slovakia to try to save Jews; the most famous of them was the heroine-poet Hannah Senesh.
All of these actions were heroic. The Warsaw ghetto held out against the Germans longer than France did!
They were also, alas, failures.
For it was not just the Nazi armies that were arrayed against the Jews. It was the entirety of German society — its universities, its medical profession, its industrialists, its scientists. The Nazis had willing, eager and enthusiastic helpers in central and eastern Europe.
The idea that Jews with guns could have made any meaningful resistance is the cruelest, most cynical, most ignorant alternative fact there is. It is an insult to the memory of the 6 million.
I can understand why gun fanatics utilize these arguments. They are eager to use any argument, no matter how fallacious, that will suit their political purposes. But, why is this idea so attractive to some Jews? Why is it that I keep on encountering this myth on Facebook, and even from Jews that I know and respect?
It is a variant of a classic theological move. As the prayer book says: “It was because of our sins that we were exiled from our Land.” More crudely: If something happens to the Jews, it’s their fault. They screwed up. (This, by the way, is the way that some ultra-Orthodox Jews interpret the horror of the Holocaust — that it was God’s punishment of a sinful nation. I find the idea so obscene as to be beyond discussion.)
The secular version of this is: The sin of the Jews was their powerlessness. We should not have been powerless. Therefore, if we only had guns, this would not have happened.
More than 70 years after the end of the Shoah, the Jews are still a traumatized people. We are suffering from communal PTSD. But, our collective, inherited anguish cannot distort the truth of Jewish historical experience.
What do we ask of our friends? You can help us mourn.
But, please: Do not distort our truth.
I don’t think that armed Jews would have prevented the Holocaust sorry to say. The all consuming ideology to destroy and conquer was too great at the time. What it would have done however, is possibly slow it down a bit, or given those able to fight a venue to do so.
The disbelief of Jews and the German public in the beginning that the magnitude of the Holocaust was coming gave the Germans enough time to put people in ever increasing danger until the reality set in. Who would have believed in 1940 that in a few short years millions would be exterminated as it was totally unbelievable. The mere fact that most did not believe that humanity would sink to such diabolical levels and no one would do anything to stop it is a contributing factor for why so many died.
No one can take away your collective historical experience, nor is anybody trying to. In hindsight you view the experience and make your own conclusions, as do others.
In hindsight the American settlers were in the same boat being against a global power, and from this angle they should never have succeeded.
David should never have succeeded against Goliath, in hindsight.
In hindsight these are all truths.
None of those are truths. Not one.
This line of thinking is another version of the NRA mantra that the only thing that stops a bad gut with a gun is a good guy with a gun, Agree totally that this is wrong because it infers that those who died were not victims but responsible for their own deaths. (Jewish sin) This argument has been around too long in support of unfettered access to guns with no qualms about revising history to support this agenda with callous disregard for truth or facts.
A good analysis,
It’s very much the same situation as with child molestation. Blaming the people who are emphatically not responsible for it gives a lot of cover to the people who are, especially if those people have other attributes that encourage people NOT to look at them. 50% of the time, it’s the father or stepfather. 25% of the time, the child knows the molester: family friend, teacher, coach, priest, relative. Only in 25% of the cases is the molester a stranger, and even that figure is questionable.
Jerry Sandusky, a generation of heterosexualily mArried scoutmasters, 1000 years worth of some catholic priests either doing the abuse or looking the other way, “youth” pastors (foUr in the last week or so alone). All fit the profile.
“(94-year-old Jewish resistance fighter Baruch) Shub said the conditions for resistance were limited given the all-encompassing scope of the Nazi genocide, but those who could fight back did so. With their actions, he said, they continued a tradition dating back to biblical times.
“Jews always fought for their survival and national honor,” he said. “I want history to remember that Jews did not walk like cattle to their slaughter.” — Associated Press, “As Numbers Dwindle”, April 12.
If nothing else, what Shub and his fellow Jewish fighters did, made a difference to them. Wasn’t worthless. Wasn’t useless. Not to them. They were fighting for something far bigger than themselves, even if they all perished. But they lacked guns (though it wasn’t their fault).
Hence more lives that could have been saved, were lost.
The above is a good article. I would add that what could very well have stopped the Holocaust as well as the other atrocities committed by the Nazis was, to use Howard Zinn’s words, ‘civil obedience’ by the many Church members who were part of the German army. If Christians had withdrawn their obedience from to the third reich, there would have been a point where Hitler would have lost too much power.
What stopped German Christians from refusing to cooperate with the Nazi government? Their church leaders were more interested in their own welfare than to stand up to the Nazi evil in a timely fashion. In addition, we have to remember the horrid anti-Semitism that existed in Germany and elsewhere even before the Nazis came into existence.
“But, there is one thing that they — and every other Jew of Europe lacked — and that was a military tradition.”
It wasn’t that the Jews lacked a military tradition. After all, if there was one thing Germany didn’t lack it was a military tradition and yet the Nazis had no trouble disarming the private citizens that weren’t their own people. What the Jews, and the larger German society they were embedded in, lacked was a tradition of personal gun ownership with the belief that a government that tries to disarm its people has to be resisted: “If the government says you don’t need your guns, you need your guns” wasn’t on their radar. If it had been, resistance to the Nazis would have started years earlier and the Jews wouldn’t have been alone.
I think guns were common in Germany throughout this period. After making Jews the enemy, the government, with the support of the non-Jewish populace, took the guns from those Jews that owned them. Perhaps what the author means by military tradition is that most Germans kept guns for hunting and target shooting. They idea that any group would turn them against the duly elected government would been unconsidered…until the Nazis named Jews the enemies of the State.
“Got mit Uns” was what the German army had on their belt buckles.
It also misses the point that people with their own guns also contributed to the mass murder as well. Collaborators formed their own units to aid in the capture, robbery, assault and murder of Jewish communities. Mostly for their own personal profit/gratification.
The three great examples of armed resistance did not stem or slow down the Holocaust in any way.
1. The Warsaw Uprising is seen more of a desire to “die standing up” than in a gas chamber.
2. The self-liberation of Sobibor left about 1/3rds of the prisoners to die by Nazi hands. Those who escaped and survived only did so by linking up with armed forces/partisan movements.
3. The Bielski Partisans (as seen in the heavily fictionalized film Defiance) actively avoided contact with the German military and carried out operations with the assistance of the Soviet military.
The meme also misses the fact that an armed populous is generally appropriated and enticed in support of the government
http://www.armedwithreason.com/militia-myths-why-armed-populations-dont-prevent-tyranny-but-often-lead-to-it/
Militias have a terrible history of creating tyranny, even when fighting against foreign powers. Militias that have been successful in warding off foreign aggression overwhelmingly opposed democratic rule. A few
examples are Vietnam, Afghanistan, Cuba, Somalia, Iraq, and southern Lebanon; in none of these countries did the militias promote a free State.
“…examples closer to home, we can easily see that the Klu Klux Klan, Neo-Nazi elements, and the Black Panthers (all of which are or were unregulated militias) have done little to promote a free society.
Perhaps the best example in America of the influence militias have on society is “Bloody Kansas” during the 1850s. Pro-Northern and Southern settlers, armed to the teeth, streamed into Kansas in order to sway whether the state became free or slave. The constant skirmishes killed56 settlers, out of a total population of 8,000. It is safe to conclude that the sudden explosion in the number of armed men did not contribute to a democratic process.
“In reality, Hitler was relatively pro-gun. Most of the strict gun control was implemented by the Weimar Republic in direct response to rising street violence and to prevent an armed coup from either the Nazis or Communists”
But it totally undercuts the pro-gun rhetoric of the NRA that an armed citizenry is a bullwark against tryanny. Of course implicit in the argument is that banditry, terrorism and killing of law enforcement is preferable to upholding democratic institutions.
Nazis had no trouble disarming private citizens with the help of fellow armed private citizens. WWII Yugoslavia was a heavily armed society before the war. Personal gun ownership devolved into militias committing atrocities both for and against the Nazis. So much so that 50 years later they simply reprised the activity, only with modern weapons.
The Nazis found an interesting way to get around armed citizens. Horrific reprisals. Partisan activity would result in entire communities being razed and thousands of people killed in response to resistance.
The entire NRA meme is complete and utter nonsense built on fake quotes and violent fantasies. People wanting to LARP being modern day Vietcong/1984 era Patrick Swayze
“What stopped German Christians from refusing to cooperate with the Nazi government?”
They benefited greatly from the Nazis.
The absence of the Jews opened up positions to people. Enriched others by theft. Allowed many to act atrociously without consequence. The Nazi state was a parasitic one where Germans benefited from the oppression and suffering of those occupied by them.
American settlers were not made an independent nation by armed militias but by organized military efforts and foreign backing.
David and Goliath is a myth.
One item that nobody talks much about, (but which nobody really forgets), is what happened in Katrina-crippled New Orleans after the police finally gave up on certain section(s) of the city.
That stuff was fearful, the crooks were in charge, and even the media didn’t try to investigate its full extent or focus on it.
I still don’t own a gun, after all these years. But if you ever see me getting all silent about the issue of guns…well it’s okay to ask me how I’m feeling about the Lars Grizzly Big Boar 50 BMG.
(Trims the beard on a potato beetle at 2000 yards, baby!!)
Here is a neat article you might like on combat sniper rifles in real life and military SF.
http://futurewarstories.blogspot.com/2014/10/fws-armory-sniper-rifle.html?m=1
Ben,
I know that was there on their WW I uniforms, but am not sure about their WW II uniforms.
gottmituns.org will show you photos.
Thank you Ben. Hope all is well
My pleasure. All is well. I think it’s important to remember what the Nazis had on their belt buckles to come to these ridiculous claims that the Nazis were atheist and therefore all atheists are Nazis.
The Weimar Republic passed the first comprehensive gun control law in1928. Once the Nazis came to power, they used that law to disarm Jews and their political opponents (who they always labeled as Communists) and added additional law of their own in1938.
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf
Armed Jews would not have prevented the Holocaust. But instead of 6M dead, they might have lowered the death toll to 5M and taken a 100K more germans with them. There was a nice talk by an Austarian woman who stated that the Nazi came the promised jobs, next they registered guns, then they took the guns to lower crime, and finally the came for the Jews (as well conscription for all Males in the Nazi Army) See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-awkYhtey50
If some one says they are going to kill you, they arm themselve, and train and you do nothing than yes you are responsible for your own death. Stupidity has a way of disappearing. As George Washington (and most Israelis) said ‘To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace. https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_washington_146832
The execution of thousands of priests, religious, ministers, and Christian lay leaders belies the notion that “church leaders were more interested in their own welfare than to stand up to the Nazi evil”.
As Stalin’s empire demonstrated and North Korea demonstrates, police states are not easy to “stand up to”.
Your fantasies are just that – fantasies.
The government took or registered and severely registered all privately owned guns from or for everyone. However, it was the Weimar Republic that did it.
The Nazi law liberalized gun ownership, except for “undesirables”, and used the Weimar Republic’s registration records to find and seize them.
Wow, what a stupid arguement. A child is not capable of running his or her life, but an adult has this responsibility. If Britian and France had fought the Nazi when they took the Rhineland in 1936, WWII and over 50 Million dead could have been avoided.
Document “the help of fellow armed private citizens” for us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns
There was no particular religious significance, anymore than “In God We Trust” on American currency expresses anything significant.
After the war “Got Mit Uns” was also used by the Bundeswehr and German police.
The Bundeswehr replaced it with “Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit” (“Unity and Justice and Freedom”) in 1962, and the police in the 1970s.
I do not think so. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” was right out of the US Revolutionary traditions. We defeated King George III using well-regulated militia, the bulk of the Civil War soldiers were militia. In the US context militia are your neighbors and they act to protect basic freedoms. For the most part the norms they fight for are democratic. The Klu Klux Klan was to keep the Black man down, but as they faded the crimes against white people increased dramatically. Currently, when Inter-racial crime occurs 85% of it is committed by Blacks. See: https://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/ The fighters moving into Bloody Kansas were not locals who had a vested interest in peace.
Hitler was pro-gun for Nazi-party members and Government workers; they did not require permits. Starting in 1933 jews were to be dis-armed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disarmament_of_the_German_Jews
Free speech was removed. One hopes that if the slaughter of the Jews had been made publish more would have resisted. I read that from 1940 – 1943 about 1/3 of German income came from their conquests. It was the old raid your neighbors and take their stuff routine.
The Revolutionary Army was based on armed militias. The contenentals were mainly troops raised by North Eastern States and adopted into the Continental Army by Congress. Until World War I the US did not like standing armies. Most military forces were State Militia. It is true that without French support the US most likely would not have beaten the British.
And do what? Jews were a tiny minority in Germany. They couldn’t take on the entire country. Nearly everyone was against them. They had no where to go. America didn’t want Jews in the 1930s and 1940s.
Bob,
How many more complied? And what about the Pope not condemning the Nazis by name or the Konkordat?
The Reichskonkordat (Concordat between the Holy See and the German Reich) is a treaty negotiated between the Vatican and Germany. It was signed on July 20, 1933, by Cardinal Secretary of State Eugenio Pacelli, who later became Pope Pius XII, on behalf of Pope Pius XI and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen on behalf of President Paul von Hindenburg and the German government. It is still in force today. The treaty ensured survival of Catholic education and youth organizations and served to prevent greater evils.
Nazi breaches of the agreement began almost as soon as it had been signed and intensified afterwards leading to protest from the Church including in the 1937 Mit brennender Sorge encyclical of Pope Pius XI.
On March 14, 1937, Pope Pius XI issued Mit Brennender Sorge (“With Burning Anxiety”), an encyclical, pointedly written in German, condemning Nazism. “Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the state, and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, perverts an order of the world created by God,” the pope wrote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany_during_World_War_II
.
Isn’t that a military rifle?
My, my.
And why would you need the bayonet?
Bob,
I am well familiar with the Konkordat and the context in which it was signed. The question is, when did the Pope identify Germany as the perpetrator of immoral crimes like the Holocaust?
Even in 1933, Hitler was no secret. His hatred of Jews and democracy was no secret. He campaigned on getting rid of the latter while scapegoating the former along with Socialists and Communists. In fact, he associated the Jews with Socialism and Communism. And the Konkordat was based on the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. And the Pope’s objection to Bolshevism and how it treated the Church was all a part of that agreement. But that context did not obscure who Hitler was and what he wanted in 1933. And so, motivated by self interest, the Vatican made that agreement with Nazi Germany and that same self-interest served as a reason why it took the Pope so long to publicly identify the Nazis as the perpetrators of some of the most immoral acts in history.
BTW, read MIt Brennender Sorge and see for yourself how self-interests, in the form of the welfare of the Church and exaltation of themselves, was such a prominent part of the 1937 document. Again, the Nazi Government was not specifically identified as the perpetrator of the worst immorality practiced in centuries (see http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html ) .
From 1903. A literal antique.
“And why would you need the bayonet?”
It was a birthday gift. Original WWII issue.
It’s for you, Bob.
Armed militias being recruited into a professional army. No longer a militia. It is like claiming conscription is the same as raising a militia. It isn’t even close in definition. Militias were separate units from the Continental Army.
https://allthingsliberty.com/2013/12/militia-continentals/
Germans loved Hitler until the plunder of the empire started to wane. Many benefited from the Holocaust and from the domination of Europe. At least until things started to go badly for them.
“the bulk of the Civil War soldiers were militia.”
From the Confederate side, because their form of government was far looser and decentralized. It made for poor logistics and command in many situations as well.
The point is militias seen in the modern day are going to be a lot closer in feel to “death squads” or “paras” seen in Latin America or the Yugoslavian Civil War than Minutemen. The KKK was very much a militia type organization of civilians with weapons seeking to enforce state government rule.
Segregationists even had their own intelligence forces
https://flashbak.com/freedom-riders-smile-for-mississippis-secret-spy-agency-1961-397143/
” See: https://www.amren.com/news/…”
American Renaissance – News and commentary on interracial crime …
News and commentary on interracial crime, race differences, white advocacy, Third World immigration, anti-white racism, and white identity.
You are quoting a white supremacist source, get the hell out of here with that crap!
Try looking up the actions of Nazi collaborators. In some countries such as Lithuania, and Yugoslavia they even joined in massacres.
Poor Bob lacks facts and understanding for a cogent response. 🙂
I just provided a nice wad of facts for you.
It’s your case to make. You support it for us or drop it.
The 1903 Springfield was used in Vietnam. So was the M-16.
I take it the 1903 Springfield is exempt from the “scary military rifle” category because you own one.
The Continental Army proper was formed by the Second Continental Congress by a resolution of the Congress on June 14, 1775.
The Army was supplemented by militias and troops that remained under control of the individual states or were independent.
After the Treaty of Paris, the 1st and 2nd Regiments formed the nucleus of the Legion of the United States in 1792 under General Anthony Wayne, which was the foundation of the United States Army in 1796.
Cute but dishonest and stupid. By 1942 it was relegated to sniper use and replaced with civilian hunting rifles in Vietnam. Most notably the Remington 700.
Aside from the weight, it is no different than any other bolt action hunting rifle in use for over a century.
Your attempt to pretend assault rifles are in the same category is laughable. A semi auto right which can sport a 30 round magazine is far more useful for nefarious purposes than one which would have to be reloaded 4-5 times and takes 10x as long to fire the next round “to put out the same amount of lead”
Nonsense appears to be your default mode.
In Ukraine, Lithuania, Hungary and Yugoslavia unofficial militias, groups of armed civilians with no official role in the German Army emptied out Jewish communities and took part in mass shootings during the “Holocaust By Bullet” in early 1941-42.
Poor Bob barely understand the subject and takes false talking points as facts. The NRA meme referenced here involves fabricated quotes and ahistorical myth.
Too bad much of what I provided was funded by the Federal Government and NONE by the NRA.
You, on the other hand, are stuck with copying and pasting from Michael Bloomberg propaganda.
Support that.
Aside from plastic magazines instead of metal, there’s no difference between an “AR-15” style rifle and semi-automatic rifles widely sold for over a century.
Your attempts to palm off the rifles your boss Michael Bloomberg and your heroine Nancy Pelosi tell you not to like as somehow nefarious are laughable.
But you were comparing it something completely different. Shifting goalposts as usual. To stay on topic instead of your dishonest diversion the response is:
Aside from holding up to 30 rounds or more which can be preloaded in a detachable magazine and capable of firing another round with just a trigger pull. As opposed to 5 rounds that have to be loaded by hand and having to pull back a bolt and push it forward again with each shot.
Semi-auto rifles which are legal for hunting in the majority of the nation don’t carry more than 5 rounds either internally or by magazine.
You can’t carry on an honest conversation if a gun was held to your head.
Confirmation troll is trolling.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005466
The NRA stance is a myth.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/26/ben-carson/fact-checking-ben-carson-nazi-guns/
This is a misreading of history on two levels. First, German citizens as a whole were not disarmed by the Nazis. Jews and other supposed enemies of the state were subject to having their weapons seized. But for most German citizens, the Nazi period was one in which gun
regulations were loosened, not tightened.
Second, a lack of guns was not the issue. If the majority of Germans had wanted to use these guns to fight the Nazis, they could have. But they didn’t. Carson ignores that the Nazis enjoyed significant popular support, or at least, broad acquiescence.
We rate this claim False.
Which already acknowledged how hamstrung its own research was and would be.
“Gun violence research by the government hasn’t been funded in two decades.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-health-202/2018/02/22/the-health-202-gun-violence-research-by-the-government-hasn-t-been-funded-in-two-decades-but-that-may-soon-change/5a8dc13e30fb047655a06856/?utm_term=.578d5cb27785
#neveragain
Bobosé, enough of your wasteful blathering. Get off your lazy backside and start working to make gun control happen.
DO IT!
After loosening the gun control laws of the Weimar Republic.
http://standardnews.com/adolf-hitler-gun-control-myth/
“However, these arguments are missing several key points. For starters, the Weapon Law of 1938 actually significantly loosened strict German gun laws that had been put into place by the Weimar Republic government in the years following World War I. These Weimar laws included an initial ban on all private firearm ownership, which was later slightly relaxed into a system of strict regulation requiring numerous permits.
The Nazi Weapon Law deregulated this whole system, as well as other changes that made it much easier for others to acquire firearms:”
http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/09/no-government-isnt-banned-from-studying-gun-violence/
That failed to support your contention.
It’s a conclusion.
What you need to provide is support, not a list of people who agree with you.
I was under the impression your complaint was about military weapons in the hands of civilians.
Most AR-15 style rifles are sold with 5 or 10 round magazines. In fact I can’t find a single one for sale with a 30 round magazine.
As Lee Harvey Oswald demonstrated, you can operate the bolt and fire in less than one second, about what it take to pull the trigger on a semi-automatic rifle.
Shame, shame, shame lying like that to protect your personal weapon.
LOL! I guess you would also compare a spear to an M-16 because it was used by militaries for centuries before firearms.
“Most AR-15 style rifles are sold with 5 or 10 round magazines. In fact I can’t find a single one for sale with a 30 round magazine.”
Adam Lanza didn’t have that problem. Neither did Nickolas Cruz. Evidently an 18 year old is more resourceful on that front than you are. 🙂
Your opinion on such maters means absolutely nothing. Dishonesty is your default mode.
Confirmation trolling at its most blatant. There is plenty of material about militias which collaborated with the Nazis. But you are not inclined to read about it. Seeking to support a false NRA centered myth.
Oopsie for you, Michael Bloomberg toady.
No facts, no support, no nothing – just unsupported blah blah blah.
Bolt action rifles were not used for centuries.
They appeared in the late 19th century and were a feature of the 20th right into Vietnam.
But they’re special because you own one.
Provide a citation to an actual AR-15 style rifle sold with a 30 round magazine or slink away with your tail between your legs.
Only a century and a half ago (depending on starting reference) as a main infantry weapon. Your argument is a laughable foray in dishonest comparison. Not worth taking seriously.
Confirmation troll is annoyed that he is not being taken seriously.
Hoo haw.
One of these days you’ll actually post a fact.
So, they’ll have to take your 1903 Springfield military weapon from your cold dead hands?
I believe this is extrapolating beyond the argument to claim the “infers” the victim is responsible. The perpetrator of the crime is the one who owns the responsibility, not the victim, but a good man with a gun who stops a bad guy with a gun is a hero, at least in my book. That said, it is indeed questionable if an armed Jewish population would have been able to mobilize in an organized and effective way in a timely manner in order to defend themselves. The one common denominator in all these situations whether it be the horrible holocaust or the horror of an individual murdered by an evil person is the darkness and evil in the human heart that manifests itself in many ways.
I certainly would prefer going down in a hail of bullets to Zyklon B.
It’s not high capacity, semi-automatic….just sayin’
wait. wait wait.
You are saying…6 million armed jews could not stop their slaughter. I’m not talking about the miniscule numbers that retained their guns. I’m talking about every jew.
You are legitimately retarded if you think 6 million or even 3 million couldn’t prevent their own slaughter. The U.S military only has around 2 million troops.
You are delusional
are you serious? Even if there were only 100,000 jews in Germany it would play out like this.
German: Walks in to question family
Family: there are no jews here
Jews in ceiling: *shoots lead into germans*
I’m in the army and if you really think them having guns wouldn’t have made a difference you are brainwashed. with any tiny amount of tactic they could have destroyed the Nazis if they were armed. Guerilla warfare all day.
Sincerely, 3 combat tour Soldier.
According to the book “Schindler’s List” the Jews were armed with handguns and G41W rifles. The G41W is a semi auto rifles with a 10 round fixed magazine in 8mm Mauser and of extremely high quality. The description indicates about 10-15 rifles.
I was looking for more information about Schindler’s armed Jews in the plant in Bohemia-Moravia and ran into this laughable discussion. I don’t believe there is an argument saying that armed Jews would somehow have stopped the Holocaust, Jews found with arms were typically killed with the exception of some WWI veterans who had non-firearm weapons. It was important to the National Socialists to separate the Jews from their weapons and to separate them from society to make murdering them something that was happening to the “other”.